Would Honest Mormons Leave if they Knew? No.
Why Aren’t More LDS Members Affected?
An increasing number of faithful Latter-day Saints are discovering facts about the Church and its history on the Internet or other sources, and these facts sometimes contradict the assumptions that they had grown up believing. Why aren’t more LDS members concerned about this new and supposedly contradictory information? Are the majority of Mormons simply afraid of discovering that they have sacrificed so much for nothing or perhaps participated in an evil religion? Are they simply hiding their heads in the sand to avoid the inevitable cognitive dissonance?
Many Exmormons would claim that any honest Mormon, when learning what they have learned, would leave the church as they have. They believe that any member of the church exposed to this information and not shaken by it must be covering their ears and eyes, so to speak, to avoid serious consideration of the facts. But is that really the case? And what about the thousands of intelligent adults, with access to the Internet, who are joining the church each year even after learning critical arguments from enemies of the Church?
I have often asked myself why exposure to this new information in Church history has not shaken my faith. I have not avoided investigating critics’ claims. In fact, I have gone against caution from leaders and family at times to dive in headfirst, researching issues, discussing with members and those of other faiths, and generally learning all I could. Yet I still remain confident in my testimony.
It’s not that I never doubt my beliefs; I have doubted a lot of things I have learned in the Church. It is not because I have always been pure and righteous. I have been exposed to new, scandalous historical evidence at times when I have drifted far from the spirit. I have always taken very seriously the Church’s claims, yet I have never been seriously shaken by the things that are challenging so many others today.
This isn’t because I somehow never grew up with or made false assumptions, because I have. It certainly is not because I have a superior intellect or, for that matter, not (I hope) because I might have an inferior one. I have found investigating these realities, made to seem scandalous by critics, not only enjoyable and mentally stimulating but also quite faith promoting at times. So what is the difference between the Saints who are shaken and those who aren’t shaken by new information or new claims?
Four Reasons for Doubting or Not
These four foundational perspectives, if understood, should aid those who struggle with these issues and inoculate those who have yet to be exposed:
• Logical fallacies: red herrings and straw men
• Why wasn’t I taught this?
• Prophets changing their minds
• The false dichotomy between faith and reason
Red Herrings and Straw Men
What makes virtually all of the critic’s challenges red herrings is that they focus on issues that are nonessential to the gospel plan, diverting us from the relevant issues. Years before the Internet, I had a very intelligent friend on the “fringe” ask me what I thought of the Adam-God Doctrine. I told him that for me it was an interesting mental and intellectual exercise to figure out. He looked at me incredulously and asked how I could consider so lightly a topic that the scriptures took so seriously. “Didn’t Jesus say it is Eternal Life to Know God?” he asked. I said, “Knowing God is not about knowing which name he may be called or how he came to be God. It is only about knowing and acquiring his attributes to become like him.” So it really didn’t matter whether Brigham Young was right or wrong on this issue or what we conclude about it.
When the critics attack the Book of Abraham, they usually criticize how we got the book, challenging things that neither side can prove. In the process, they assume that what Egyptologists knew ten years ago is all we know today or will ever be known. Their concerns are rarely about the book’s contents and real message. They avoid the spiritual realities and the comparisons of the new doctrines and information revealed there to ancient extra-biblical accounts not known by Joseph Smith.
It is the same with the Book of Mormon. The proof test of this Book is to read it sincerely with pure intent and see how it affects your life spiritually. After careful study and pondering its spiritual message, pray to know if it is of God. That is the real truth claim of all books of scripture. The critics make it about the archaeology, geography, artifacts and how Joseph translated it. They present arguments as though the claim of the Book of Mormon is something different than it really is, which makes them straw man arguments more easily torn down because they are arguing against a false premise.
The Book of Mormon does not claim to be a geography book, an anthropological study of the early inhabitants in the Americas, or a dissertation on their implements of war. It only claims to be a book that includes teachings of ancient prophets who lived somewhere in the Americas anciently and promises to bring us closer to Christ. Many claims of critics are based on the fallacy that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. But only on spiritual terms can we prove or disprove its authenticity, thus making their claims irrelevant to the veracity of latter day scripture. This is the kind of thing Jesus was referring to when he warned against straining at gnats while swallowing camels, because many of the questions are unanswerable and irrelevant to the subject matter of what is being criticized.
Why Wasn’t I Taught This?
The false paradigm involved in all of the challenges is the idea that the church has hidden this stuff from us and the Internet is exposing the cover up. The chief cause of this misunderstanding is the fact that our history is just so rich and relatively recent. Imagine the dirt that critics could dig up on the original apostles or even Jesus if we had as much of their history available as we do of Christ’s latter-day church.
The fact is, we simply have way too much information to learn in order to know everything necessary to counter what a critic could dig up from our numerous records to challenge us on. Even if members of the church could memorize half of the Journal of Discourses and half of the Joseph Smith Papers, critics could still have a hayday picking unknown facts from what we still don’t know, present them in a scandalous way and then claim the Church is hiding it from us. Moreover, the critics almost always present these arguments out of context with the text, culture, and history. They often present these things in an anachronistic way.
Can Prophets Change Their Minds or Make Mistakes?
This issue is probably the most difficult to understand. It involves a paradigm that causes concern when Church leadership issues policy changes or when some of them speculate with their strong opinions about unrevealed reasons for things. The “Mormon Challenges” involved here, for instance, are the changes in policy on plural marriage, on blacks holding the priesthood, or even the positions people expect the Church to change like gay marriage and women holding the priesthood.
People who struggle here assume that since the first two policies were changed, then the second two will be as well. They think that either the brethren were right in saying the prophet will never lead us astray and therefore such policies should never change, or if they change one such policy, then nothing they say can be trusted. If God commands us to follow the prophet, they expect the prophet will never make mistakes in anything.
The reality we must understand is that God allows his prophets to be as human–to mess up–as much as possible, as long as it doesn’t truly disrupt His plan and lead the Church down the wrong path. This can still be the church run by Jesus with fallible men as prophets, seers and revelators. Actually, this is exactly how the church has been run since 1830 and even since the beginning of the Old Testament. Remember how God allowed the great prophet Moses to run things for awhile without revealing to him how to delegate? He then inspired a humble priest of Midian to instruct his prophet on the subject. This is obviously how Christ has chosen to run his church. Look at its fruits and judge if Christ was wise in choosing this path for his church.
Also, what needs to be understood to avoid these difficult ordeals with cognitive dissonance is that none of these issues of changing policy has anything to do with what we need to know to come unto Christ or become more like him. And isn’t that the mission of the church? No doctrines have changed. It has only been policy or implementation of doctrine based on circumstances at the time that have changed. Even the policy on withholding the priesthood from blacks has never been admitted to be wrong. Only the assumptions of why and when. A big cause of this problem is pride. We get so invested in our theory or assumption that if the brethren act in a way that challenges it, they must be wrong.
Faith vs. Reason — A False Dichotomy
Many critics believe that when the brethren encourage us to choose faith over doubt, they are using a straw man argument. Their position is faith vs. reason, not doubt. They teach that reasoning from empirical evidence experienced through the five senses is the only way of discerning truth. They reject the spiritual realities that believers see as just as relevant to discerning truth. It is true that some people find it comforting that since they have faith, they don’t have to bother with all the mental labor involved in logic and reason. Those people truly are relying on “blind faith”. That is not the kind of faith encouraged and even commanded by Joseph Smith, his successors, or scripture.
It is interesting that church critics seek to discredit the value of feelings and emotions in seeking truth, while at the same time attempting to attack the church using arguments which rely on feelings and emotions. The accusations of Joseph Smith lying or womanizing, or modern leaders hiding information and deceiving people, are only legitimate concerns because they strike a deep seeded moral chord which would be irrelevant if personal feelings and an internal sense of right and wrong were discarded.
This is what commonly happens. A person gains a testimony of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon through study and prayer. They become aware of spiritual stirrings and feelings they believe can’t be denied. They discover that as they obey those promptings and feelings of conscience that their lives are enriched. They nourish the seed and it grows. Then, at some point, they are confronted with what appears to be empirical evidence that on the surface shows Joseph Smith or something that came from him to be a fraud. Since it takes far more research and effort to defend such claims than to assert them and since this person is not well versed in history and is not a scholar, he is at a disadvantage on the rational empirical side of the issue. The presenter of these new facts emphasizes the idea that you can only be sure of what you can physically discern and previous spiritual witnesses must have just been imagined. But then this champion of doubt reminds the person of the same source of right and wrong that helped this person recognize the truths of the gospel, as reasons to condemn those who revealed it. Without realizing it, the new doubter angrily rejects the sources of his earlier spiritual enlightenment based on morals he learned from that same source of enlightenment.
What we learn from this is that those on both sides of the argument value the spirit as a source of discerning truth. Those who criticise Joseph Smith and the Church, however, deny its relevance and are often unaware of their inconsistent position. We all need to remember that the path of faith is a rational one. In fact it is the most rational one. To ignore the role of the spirit in teaching us truth is unreasonable and unnecessary.
We also need to remember that in addition to laboring in our ability to reason with our minds we need to nurture our spiritual nature. The most effective way to do that is to become aware of ways we can do better at obeying our conscience. We need to ask ourselves, how can I behave differently to be a better person. If we ask this kind of question while in prayer or at the temple or during scripture study it is even more effective. The answer to such a question is always right in front of us. It is so obvious we sometimes miss it. We know very well things we can change to be better. That awareness is revelation directly to us from our maker.
Whenever we stretch out of our comfort zone to better obey our conscience, that light of Christ becomes brighter in all areas of our life and we are better able to discern and know how to act when confronted with facts that seem to contradict teachings of the church. If we follow this pattern with patience and humility, the answers will come, often a lot sooner than we might expect.
One side can indeed prove their case regarding the Book of Abraham. We can prove Smith copied and pasted from the scroll fragments to incorrectly fill in the pieces of the facsimiles. We know the astronomy taught by Abraham is reflective of the science accepted in Joseph Smith’s time, but no longer today. We know God is not Min. We know the BoA is mostly a copy and paste of the bible – what’s odd about that is Smith translated the BOM (500+ pages) in a few months but the BoA (50 pages?) in 9 months or so. We know the papyrus Smith said was the BoA doesn’t even mention the name Abraham – if fact it’s a common breathing permit for a man named Horus.
We may not know every thing about Egyptology, but we know enough – just like we may not know all of mathematics, but we know 2 + 2 is 4, and that’s what we have here.
I guess you could say the Book of Abraham has been proven to be a fraud if you only accept the evidence presented by a very biased, anti perspective. I challenge you to find any Egyptologist who has studied carefully the recent findings of Dr. Muhlestein and other LDS scholars, and claims their points are all irrelevant. There is a long list of evidences in favor of the Book of Abraham that the critics mostly ignore. Watch all the short videos here and read the text below. If you have an objective bone in your body, you will see that the case is not quite so open and shut as you think against the BofA.
Here are some other links that identify even more evidences supporting the claims of the Book of Abraham.
“I challenge you to find ANY Egyptologist who has studied carefully the recent findings of Dr. Muhlestein and other LDS scholars, and claims their points are all irrelevant.”
Okay: Dr. Robert Ritner, Professor of Egyptology in the Oriental Institute, housed at the University of Chicago. He was John Gee’s Egyptology professor. I’m pretty sure he knows what he’s talking about, and he thoroughly debunks Muhlestein’s ideas. He wrote an entire essay completely slamming Gee, Muhlestein, and the BoA.
Stuart, you try to answer my challenge of any Egyptologist taking on the recent findings of Dr. Muhlestein. Your answer is Ritner. The problem with that answer is the Ritner’s last response was over a decade ago and does not address any of Muhlestein’s recent findings. He knows what he’s talking about with general Egyptian stuff, but shows he is way out of his league when it comes to the Book of Abraham. Here’s a link to show what I mean. http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1459&index=18
Okay: Dr. Robert Ritner, Professor of Egyptology in the Oriental Institute, housed at the University of Chicago.
His book, The Joseph Smith Egyptian Papyri: A Complete Edition, includes the first ever complete translation of the papyri. He slams Muhlestein, Gee, and the BoA.
To understand how seriously we should take Ritner, who has had nothing to say about any recent findings of Dr. Muhlestein, check out this link. http://publications.maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1459&index=18
There are some responses to Dr. Muhlestein’s findings here from actual egyptologists:
Flackerman is no Egyptologist and the actual Egyptologists he quotes are making assumptions without any acquaintance with the findings of LDS Egyptologists in the last decade. They are simply uninformed on this specific branch of Egyptology.
Muhlestein? The guy who got kicked out of Egypt for misrepresenting his findings? That’s your source to save your testimony?
It turns out that those of us who trust Kerry Muhlestein are not nearly as gullible as you. I happen to know first hand that the Egyptian Antiquities Ministry investigated the false claims of some newspapers and found it to be misinformation. The dig Kerry is involved with has their blessing and continues. It shows to what length you will go to to justify your non-testimony.
Your very first point caught my attention. In the case of the BoA, are you saying that the end justifies the means? This “red herring” has some pretty serious implications. I would love to hear what you think about the kinderhook plates that Joseph miraculously translated. If you aren’t familiar with it, I would suggest reading about it. It clearly shows that he was willing to make up stuff when he thought no one else could understand what was written.
I don’t see how anything in these videos or what the church has said suggests an “end justifies the means” approach. Please explain.
With the Kinderhook plates you need to answer the most obvious problem with what you have believed. That is, why did the perpetrators of the hoax decide not to use it against Joseph Smith, since that is the reason they did it in the first place? They wanted to be the ones who exposed him as a fraud, yet there is no record of them saying or writing anything about it until 50 years after the fact. How do you explain that?
So if the prophet Joseph Smith told you that marrying him and cutting off your earthly marriage was absolutely essential to your salvation,
That issue isn’t essential to your salvation? Celestial marriage is still a very relevant issue to the plan of salvation. Joseph taught his potential brides that there was no other way for them to be saved, and if they didn’t enter into the principle, the gates of heaven would be closed to them.
Unjustifiably denying people saving ordinances based on their genetic heritage is also very relevant to an individual’s salvation. If you’re Anglo, it may not be directly relevant to your own salvation, but you should consider it a red flag, not a red herring.
Well, first of all, Joseph never threatened any potential bride that the gates of heaven would be closed to them if they did not marry him. You have believed out of context quotes compiled and presented in a misleading way by a critic. You need to check your sources more carefully.
Of all the Christian religions of the world, Mormonism is the one that most vigorously teaches that no human who has ever lived on this earth will be denied any saving ordinances. Such saving ordinances, which you are referring to, have been denied during mortality to the vast majority of people who have lived on the earth throughout history anyway. Comparatively, delaying such blessings for a small segment of the our brothers and sisters a few decades is a very minor thing. Besides, if it is evidence that the church is a fraud, as you infer, they weren’t missing out on anything anyway. The only reason it would be an issue at all is if these really are saving ordinances. If they are, then it was God’s choice to withhold them for a short period of time, and who are we to question God? This policy was completely consistent with the Bible and other teachings of this church and Christianity as a whole. So yes, your argument definitely is a red herring.
Thanks for your conceptual principles post. I have also done a lot of digging on the internet in coming to terms with my faith. The more I dig the more I realize how human Joseph Smith was and yet how much he accomplished. The faith of those who lived the history strengthens my convictions. One simple fact that never ceases to amaze me is this: If Joseph Smith was a fraud, then so were the 11 other witnesses. The 3 witnesses were true to their claims of angelic ministry to their dying breath, even after having left the church. Imagine the riches that they could have made by exposing the “hoax”. They didn’t. Two returned humbly to the fold and the other defended his eyewitness account until the end. I like Isaiah’s take on latter day occurrences: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD’S house shall be established in the top of the mountains”. & Revelation: “And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,”
Thanks for the uplifting comment Brian. Not only would the official witnesses of the plates be in on the fraud, but so many others who witnessed more than enough and after leaving the church didn’t mention many of the scandalous accusations today’s critics come up with. A couple obvious examples of this are the Kinderhook plates and the assumed evolving story of the First Vision.
Bobby, I watched the first Dan Vogel video all the way through. I am familiar with Dan’s position on Mormon history and have read several of his arguments. I now have a better understanding of his mindset after watching that video. He claims that this video is only attempting to show evidence against the claim of Mormon apologists that the testimony of the witnesses proves the claims of Joseph Smith about the Book of Mormon. This is the same straw man argument I hear everyday from critics. Richard Anderson did not claim in any of the quotes Vogel presented that the witnesses prove anything. He is only arguing against the critics’ false claims that their testimony is somehow less credible than what they claim to be. His whole point is that no witness of any sort can be 100% foolproof. Any informed rational Mormon would agree with this, so why go to all this effort to prove something Mormons all believe anyway?
He points out several facts and then jumps to a conclusions as if they are the only possible conclusions from such facts, when his conclusions are actually irrational when considered with the rest of the historical context which Vogel doesn’t include. His perspective is one of a nonbeliever and his objective is to persuade the viewer to agree with his conclusions. He shows here that he is unwilling to seriously consider the possibility that Joseph Smith really was inspired by God.
At the end he shows his bias and lack of desire for objectivity when he claims that since there is no historical evidence that the Book of Mormon is an ancient work, the most likely argument is that the witnesses must have been hallucinating. Again, he is basing his conclusion on two false premises.
One is that historical evidence is the only other evidence available to evaluate. This ignores the possibility of spiritual confirmation to the individual seeker, which is the only claim the Book of Mormon actually makes. A truly scientific evaluation of the Book of Mormon must include this method of testing for truth.
The other false premise is the idea that there is absolutely no historical evidence of the Book of Mormon. This ignores the very obvious fact that there is an extreme amount of historical evidence for the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. He mentions a couple things that would be very difficult to discover and have not yet been, but ignores all that has been discovered. Dan Vogel here did a great job here of convincing me that his historical evaluations provide very little value.
Your title is unfortunate because it suggests that those of us who have left are dishonest. It seems to me that what you are really saying is that it’s possible to learn all the unsavory things about the LDS church and still retain faith. I would agree with that. But it has nothing to do with honesty. I left because my head and heart and conscience told me I had to leave. You may disagree with my choices, but please don’t label them dishonest.
John, thanks for your comment. The title was not meant to infer what you are taking from it. The title is meant to ask if Mormons can be honest and still believe. This comes from many anti and ex-Mormons who claim that it is indeed impossible for anyone who knows of these challenges to remain in the church and still be honest. Nothing in this title or article is intended to question in any way the honesty of those who leave.
Alan – It’s frustrating to hear you justifications for obvious problems with the BoA. It’s as if no matter what evidence is found, you won’t believe it unless it supports your narrative. The other thing I find interesting is that you’re supporting Kerry Muhlestein, the same guy who had his archaeology dig license revoked by the Egyptian Antiquities Ministry. Why is it that EVERY non-Mormon Egyptologist, most of which have no “skin in the game”, have completely denounced the BoA, yet many Mormons still reject those findings? Why is it that Mormon apologists can’t just admit that there are some things they don’t have answers to? The spinning and mental gymnastics actually makes it worse for honest truth seekers.
You need to check your sources better, Bing. I have first hand information that the Egyptian Antiquities Ministry investigated the false reports from some newspapers and concluded that they reported misinformation. The excavation continues and was not shut down. The fact that such misinformation is reported, spread and believed so easily is proof that Mormons are not the only ones who have an agenda.
I’m willing to concede that there are some very complex counter arguments to the critics’ claims. Some of these arguments are pretty compelling. But you have to admit that church leaders did a pretty poor job of preparing members to confront these claims.
You missed one big problem. Those who tell or teach outright lies and incorrect information. Some do it knowingly and some do it without knowledge it is a lie or is false.
It happens often and many will not stop teaching it when it is shown they are teaching lies and false doctrine.
Jim, I am not aware of any church general authority who is teaching or has taught any lies or false doctrine knowingly. Perhaps you could share an example.
Fair. I would like to issue a challenge to all members struggling with this. Read the BoM or listen to the audio book straight through. Marathon it the way you would would with Star Trek or Harry Potter or any other book you are a fan of. It should not take you more than a week (maybe two) to get through the whole thing. Every time you take a break, pray about it. Ask the Holy Ghost. Really ask the spirit real questions and listen to the answers you receive. Don’t try to tell God what the answer is supposed to be, its not really asking if only one answer is allowed. Ask more questions than just “is it true?” Ask “who wrote this?” Ask ” what spirit inspired this part?” and “which spirit inspired that part?” Then ask “what should I do with this information?”
Not every Egyptologist has denounced the Book of Abraham. The ones who looked at what little is left of the original don’t even agree amongst themselves. Same with Egyptology in general…..there are always disagreements about translations, dating, who a mummy really was, what the culture really was like, dates, falsifying of finds and information, forgeries, and on and on. This goes on in ALL fields of research …..science, biology, medicine, etc. The study of dinosaurs is a good example where there is always one side bashing the other side. There is always one camp against another camp, always infighting, jealousy, with holding of new discoveries and new information, and even falsifying data and other things. So to say all Egyptologists debunk the Book of Abraham is not impressive and not proof of anything. There is the fact that the ones who have looked at what little exists have a bias against the LDS, and if just one agreed with what JS said it was would be ruinous to the career, so that is reason enough to say JS was wrong.
Hugh Nibley, LDS, was the first to discover it was a book of Breathings and the church published this information.
Margaret Barker, an English scholar, is the rare scholar who has studied LDS doctrine and riruals. She has taken a beating for it, and some people won’t read her work just because she studied LDS claims and rituals. I read on a Catholic blog a reader who asked if he should read a certain book of Barker’s and was told NO because she has studied Mormonism and Mormons like her and she has spoken at BYU and with Mormon scholars. How idiotic, ignorant, bigoted, hateful, and just plain stupid, to ignore good scholarship just because the scholar objectively and without bias studied Mormon rituals and doctrine…….so that automatically disqualifies Barker from being a respectable, qualified, knowledgeable, reputable scholar. These idiots amongst others who are LDS critics, do the very thing they claim the LDS do.
As far as the mental gymnastics Mormons are accused of doing……the same could be said of any religion. The critics have a double standard they conveniently ignore. They can dish it out but can’t take it.